Archive for church
question?
Posted by: | CommentsWhy is a multi-site video venue format synonymous with imported preaching? Is it thinkable to have the worship be piped in and the preaching live? What if each campus had it’s own live music and preaching, but the announcements were fed in via video to help the church be on the same page?
Feel free to share your thoughts. There must be a good reason for the way things are or perhaps there are stories out there that are not well known.
The Big Red Tractor
Posted by: | CommentsI’m not sure if this guy Francis Chan will ever be much of a speaker or author of books, but he does write a good little parable here. (smile) If you haven’t already seen this video, check out what he says about the church here.
Really?
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From time to time I will be posting some things I have heard or read from U.S. church and those related to it that may be worth a rethink. What are your thoughts?
Billboard ad for a church:
“Unlike any other church you have ever seen.”
Mega church pastor:
“Pray and ask God to do big things this weekend.”
Heard from multiple pastors:
It’s not the pastor’s job to win the lost. His role is to equip the believers.
Missionary:
“I don’t do lost people.”
(This is the second post of this type. See “Say what?” for more.)
Art and CPing in KC
Posted by: | CommentsThis week at Union Station in Kansas City I saw the following…. Can you guess what it is?
Here’s a little more scope. Figured it out yet?
Zoomed out here…
In Andy Warhol style, there were several different color images of Marilyn Monroe each constructed from cans of food such as tuna and beans. This was one of several constructions designed for a food drive endeavor.
Surely there are many lessons to come from this, but I’ll leave these for the reader.
While in KC, I also had the privilege of meeting with a group of church planters. They were making plans to start 30 churches in the next 10 years. It was a blessing to hear their hearts and to be a small part of the opening questions we should be asking session. I have already and will continue to pray for you guys. Press on!
G2g: Disassociate
Posted by: | CommentsKey principle #2 for moving discipleship from great to good: Disassociate the spiritual from everyday life.
good
To limit discipleship to the realm of the good, it is helpful to compartmentalize things that are holy or sacred as distinct from other common or secular things. The good allows for reduction of spiritual things to the eternal condition of souls and the church as well as the nature and worship of God. There is upside to this minimalization. The limited range of topics allows one to delve deeper into the cognitive learning as the focus reduces the scope of areas to address. Additionally, with emphasis on a narrow definition of that which is sacred, requirements for disciples and those that would make disciples are minimized. For example, how one conducts business, interactions with neighbors, and family relations will not need to be under scrutiny except for when it involves eternal soul issues. Ultimately, the categorization of sacred vs. secular allows those who are righteous to disassociate from those that are unrighteous in most areas. Ongoing, interactive relationships are not important except for the moments where the gospel is being proclaimed when seeking to make disciples in a way that is good.
Great
Throughout His life, Jesus did so much to blur the lines of the sacred and the secular for the purpose of showing the mercy, grace, and glory of God. He did most of the teaching we read about in the gospels outside of the temple. He allowed a woman to anoint His feet with oil using her hair while reclining in the home of Lazarus. Interacting with the immoral Samaritan woman, He once again confounded the categories that religious leaders had established and maintained. Obeying His mother’s instructions, he changed water into wine in the stone jars that were reserved only for ceremonial washing. Also, he ate in the homes of sinners and tax collectors on more than one occasion.
Jesus was not simply content to come and be in the presence of the lost, but He made it His purpose. He shared that He came “to serve and to give His life as a ransom for many” as well as “to seek and to save that which was lost.” His stories revolve around the lost coin, sheep and son. He told of the wealthy father that ran to embrace His filthy, stinky son who had squandered his wealth living as a hedonist. He provided examples and a lifestyle that belong only in the realm of the great.
ordinary
In his awared-winning book Seeing God in the Ordinary, Michael Frost writes:
The truly converted souls know that gratitude is the stuff of life. Our eyes are wide open because we’ve learned to see God’s goodness in the most mundane things. We see God’s grace revealed in movies, books, stories, good food and drink, sport and hobbies, cooking, small talk, raising kids, shared laughter, and strong coffee. And for this we are eternally grateful. Such gratitude sets us free from using others as objects. It liberates us from codependent, needy relationships.
(In the excerpts from my non-book, Great to Good (G2g), truth or satire may be employed. At times, the two may even meet.)
G2g: Identify the Start
Posted by: | CommentsKey principle #1 for moving discipleship from great to good: Start discipleship post-conversion.
good
After someone has made Christ their Lord, it is important to start teaching about who Christ is. Prior to that point, the person or group seeking to disciple at the status quo level of good should limit conversations and interactions with non-believers to evangelistic efforts. Many tools are available for the purpose including but not limited to the Roman Road, Four Spiritual Laws, Steps to Peace with God, the EvangeCube, Way of the Master, and a bevy of apologetic materials. Friendship combined with conversations about how Christ as Lord impacts family, work, relationships, etc. is risky or worse when maintaining the good.
Great
In the realm of great, discipleship began at the very first encounter. Jesus stated, “You have seen Me, you have seen the Father.” As a result, the life He lived before his disciples, the way He interacted with them, the words He spoke to them were representative of God the Father from the very first interaction. Even during introductions, discipleship had begun. This was the great model. It took some time until we see recognition of Christ’s Lordship from his closest followers. But all this time He was lovingly, faithfully showing them the Father.
intentional selection
It is essential that pastors, leaders, and other disciple-makers intentionally clarify when they will begin discipling others. If discipling is to be done exclusively with pre-existing believers, the message may be a little bit less difficult to convey with a little less mess. This, realm of good discipleship, is effective when helping nice people become nicer. Tranformation in this strata is difficult to find as celebration may revolve around maturation. This progression of maturity, however, is easier to construct and oversee.
pastor as discipler
When leaders pursue replacing the great with the good, it will be helpful for each to clarify his or her role as one who works only with believers. In large churches this could be limited to working primarily or exclusively with other church staff. This helps promote the good of encouraging other disciple-makers to invest their time in those that already identify themselves with Christ. This will effectively help the church body be a nicer group of people. Additionally, if all disciple-makers in the church are seeking to work only with the redeemed, it will preclude the godless from being likely to come into the church which may even help reduce the amount of intensive discipleship needing to be done. Whether or not the pastor chooses to disciple and who he selects for this time investment will have major ramifications in the pursuit of the great or the good.
(In the excerpts from my non-book, Great to Good (G2g), truth or satire may be employed. At times, the two may even meet.)
G2g: The Intro
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From different backgrounds, a group of men came together as a band of brothers. One would be lost in the journey, but those that remained were tight. They had walked through so much together. The group had feasted together and been hungry together. Rejoiced and despaired together. Laughed together and fought with one another. There was a bond of communitas that drew the students close to each other. These 11 men had seen their Teacher respond to others in ways they had never even dreamed possible. Lives were transformed, families were saved, each man had changed so much because he had walked and lived with, as well as watched and loved Jesus–because the Teacher had first loved each of them.
It could not have been better. The disciples had seen their Master be violently crucified. At the time each had lost his faith and run in fear. But Jesus came back; He rose from the dead. And then He came to them and showed His love for them and challenged them to do as He had modeled over the past three years. As they lived their lives, they were to make disciples that would experience life and transformation. The model was Christ. Pointing others to their Lord was the call and blessing of the disciples–now the disciple-makers. This was great. Improvement simply would not be possible.
Since then, some have undertaken the task of improving the discipleship process. It was you and me, your church and mine. How? Where? Why? When? With whom? All points were open for discussion. Through innovation and change we have effectively been able to make this a good thing that has some effect. Though this good of ours was not His great, it was at least good.
Maybe good is enough. Maybe that’s all we really want. Maybe this is close enough to obedience in the area of making disciples.
(Over the next several weeks I will be posting a number of excerpts from my non-book. We will be examining some specific ways that we have and still abandon great to pursue good in the area of discipleship.)
Great to Good
Posted by: | CommentsIn the midst of a windstorm this week in the beautiful state of Alaska, I had a brainstorm. For now, my plan is not to write this book…
While I do have a cover worked out just in case, I thought maybe I would make a few consecutive posts on this blog site with others spread over time that would be excerpts from this book I am not planning to write.
Disclaimer: Please note that there may be some similarities between the cover of this book and another book. If you stumble upon the other book, please note that I am a fan of said book by a Mr. Jim Collins. Any similarities or differences with said book cover are for the purpose of fun and communication. All original ideas in his book continue to be his while all ideas in the book I am not going to write are mine or somebody else’s and probably of very little interest to him.
Another New, Old Form of Proclamation
Posted by: | CommentsThere is no message more powerful. None. It cannot be matched. Though sharper than a double-edged sword, the Bible is a relatively little-used force in modern worship and discipleship. Often, a speaker will refer to a brief passage or verse as a launch point to make their own argument or explanation. At times, a preacher will belabor a single word study. While this is not wrong, it does raise two questions. First, for whose glory is the message given and the study done? Second, is there possibly a more effective mode? I hope that this first question will be wrestled with by all who teach the Bible. As for the second…
Read it. Aloud. To the community. Quote it. Share it.
There are numerous examples where this is done in the Bible. A few examples include:
- Joshua reading the law to the people – Joshua 8
- Josiah, who is convicted by the law when it is read to him, then, in turn, he reads it to the people – 2 Kings 22-23
- Jesus reads from Isaiah in the temple – Luke 4
Promised that the Word of God will not return void, we are to proclaim it. This may be done simplest and best by letting the Word communicate for itself.
Last year I was in Germany when David Platt quoted the first 8 chapters of Romans to a group. Though I was unable to be in the meeting, I spoke with many afterward that were moved to tears and repentance because of the power of the Bible in context. Though presented as a different message and occasion, here is the essence of that time and an example of how powerfully the Word can communicate. It may be of value to note that he does not read this text, but rather quotes it. I encourage you to listen to the message in its entirety. It is really, really good…Scripture.
Note: This is the second post on the theme–A New, Old Form of Proclamation.
If, then
Posted by: | CommentsLately, I have been thinking, studying, and writing a lot on the area of discipleship. Last week I was on my way to be with some church planters in AR. While in route, I stopped for a plate of fried catfish (perhaps this is important when considering being a fisher of men or perhaps I have just missed it the past several years) and to write down this syllogism.
Jesus calls us to be his disciples.
Therefore, I am to be a disciple. And…
He teaches his disciples to be disciple-makers.
Therefore, a disciple makes other disciples.
Two possible outcomes:
I make disciples.
Therefore, I am a disciple.
or
I don’t make disciples.
Therefore, I am not a disciple.
By extension, if this is the characterization of the disciples that make up the church, then it will be the characterization and evidence of the church. 2 Timothy 3:1-9 should not be descriptive of the church. However, verses 10-17 should be consistent with church.
Hirsch makes a similar argument in his upcoming book, Untamed, and in “No Disciples, No Mission,” a post on the Catalyst site. Not only is this a worthwhile read, it merits serious consideration and reevaluation.
Before wrapping up this post, I would like to encourage those who may attend the churchplanters.com conference this February 22-23 in the Atlanta area to consider participating in the pre-conference event with Alan Hirsch and the founders of The Upstream Collective. The event will deal with Lessons from Post-Christian Cultures. Like other Hirsch talks and Upstream events in the past, I am sure this will be insightful and thought-provoking.
